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Admin, go ahead and close this thread. I’ll make a new post about the limited opening.
I’ve confirmed with NFS the details of the updated closure order and we will be able to open CSS for site flying. XC flights will be limited because we can’t go into the airspace of the closure area. Please stand by while we create a post that has the current maps and details. In a nutshell, we are able to use the launches and we can open for site flying, only XC routes will be to the west of launches. Give us some time to make the updates and be sure you clearly understand where the no-go zone is before you run out and launch!
I spoke with the NFS again on Wednesday, a lady from the Washington DC HQ who has been dispatched to help with the fires.
She said that she agreed that the language in the order was ambiguous & vague, she apologized for it but said that by the time they release any new superseding orders or corrections all this will probably be over anyway.
People or Instructors from our club are not the only parties who have questioned the order, they are fielding calls from many businesses on the mountain who are asking permission to operate. Unfortunately they aren’t considering any exceptions for anyone right now. The time would take to go through the administrative process to approve any special permissions or access would probably exceed the NOV 30 planned end date, and its likely that the order will be turned down a few notches before then anyway.
There were two flare ups on Thursday and Friday so that has only proven the NFS position that this isn’t over yet and there is still significant risk. The best thing we can hope for is some rain to improve their ‘outlook’ on the situation and consider relaxing restrictions.
The Line Fire is now 75% contained. As we approach the end of September I expect there is good chance that NFS will shrink the footprint of the closure area and ease some restrictions. I’m in active communications with the SB NFS Supervisor’s Office and the Ranger in Charge.
Keep in mind what I said above is an optimistic view due to successful fire-fighting efforts on the part of CAL Fire and participating agencies. To be realistic (or pessimistic if that’s better fit), there is an equal chance that the NFS will keep the entire SB National Forest closed for the immediate future just to mitigate the risk of another fire. The best thing we can hope for that would prevent that reality is RAIN. A healthy dose of moisture on the dry vegetation in the mountains would ease the fire risk condition and encourage opening things back up to the public. Stay tuned…
Mark, nobody thanked you because you didn’t clarify a single thing. The forest order is clear and CSS will observe it. You’re welcome to call the NFS Supervisor’s office and tell the Public Affairs Officer that he’s just a social director and his word doesn’t hold much legal weight… good luck with that.
I just spoke with the NFS Supervisor for S.B. National Forest (who is also the Public Affairs Officer). I also reviewed the current status of the Line fire (57% contained as of Saturday morning 21 SEP), also all Evacuation Warnings have been lifted.
– The exemption for Residents is to allow them to use the roads that are closed (to everyone else) so they can access their homes & businesses.
– Any exemptions DO NOT apply to non-essential activities or recreation of ANY kind. So even Locals would be cited for hiking, camping, off-roading, anything and yes, flying.
– The NFS recognizes that they cannot close Airspace but that does NOT mean we can or should fly. We know and they know that the intent of the CSS to close Free Flight with respect to Forest Closure Orders has more to do with preventing a situation that could require Emergency Services (a helicopter rescue in the forest) that would distract those resources from the larger fire fighting effort and risk starting another fire.
– The NFS PAO encourages CSS members to be patient as the Line fire situation is actively managed and the NFS order could be narrowed, limited, or rescinded at any time before NOV 30.
I just spoke with the NFS Supervisor for S.B. National Forest (who is also the Public Affairs Officer). I also reviewed the current status of the Line fire (57% contained as of Saturday morning 21 SEP), also all Evacuation Warnings have been lifted.
– The exemption for Residents is to allow them to use the roads that are closed (to everyone else) so they can access their homes & businesses.
– Any exemptions DO NOT apply to non-essential activities or recreation of ANY kind. So even Locals would be cited for hiking, camping, off-roading, anything and yes, flying.
– The NFS recognizes that they cannot close Airspace but that does NOT mean we can or should fly. We know and they know that the intent of the CSS to close Free Flight with respect to Forest Closure Orders has more to do with preventing a situation that could require Emergency Services (a helicopter rescue in the forest) that would distract those resources from the larger fire fighting effort and risk starting another fire.
– The NFS PAO encourages CSS members to be patient as the Line fire situation is actively managed and the NFS order could be narrowed, limited, or rescinded at any time before NOV 30.
FYI, this occurred in Sept 2021 when the SB National Forest was closed for essentially the whole month… right in the middle of prime thermal flying season. The 30 NOV closure date for the current order might be a bit of a surprise for some, but considering some of the devastating fires that have occurred across the state over the last two years, it makes sense.
With that said, its is likely they assigned an end date that is more than two months away out of an abundance of caution. If anything changes we will update this post accordingly. Hopefully things turn out for the better and the order will end earlier than currently listed.
Some other points that are noteworthy and could be helpful:
– Flying with a radio is not required by the CSS, but during fire season its a good idea to have one so that clear communication can help with the situation. We use different frequencies between groups of pilots, totally normal to minimize heavy chatter. Its a good idea that you share with someone outside of your group what freq you are on in case we have to send out comms related to fires or any other safety related event. There is also a big whiteboard in the LZ, you can write your frequency in use on that board and how many pilots are on it for that flying day (this a good idea for many other safety reasons besides just fires).
– The regular CSS club members and all of the students who learn at CSS have a solid foundation in club rules, big thanks to our resident Instructors who make sure all our P1/H1 students are taught this from the get-go. While the Club Rules are on the website, on the poster in the LZ, and on the trifold pamphlets in the LZ… it appears that some visiting pilots still don’t get the word. Lets all do what we can to make are pilots are aware of our safety rules and procedures (to include the approach patterns and the White X, this are really our two biggest rules).
– CSS membership is REQUIRED to land at AJX and use club facilities. There are multiple people who have flown our site without being, at the very least, even temporary members. This behavior is disrespectful to the founders of the club, people who have put in countless hours over many years improving and maintaining the club, to the volunteers who run current club operations, but perhaps most immediately it is disrespectful to all of the Club Members who maintain a current paid membership. It takes money to operate our club, maintain the facilities, and pay our insurance premiums. Luckily, that total dollar cost annually shared between our active members makes the individual contribution each year a very low dollar amount. Anyone who ‘pirates’ the privilege to fly at CSS/AJX is doing a disservice to the people who made it possible for us enjoy this site for the last 30 years and to our current members, also putting our club at risk if something bad were to happen.
Reminder to CSS Members:
IT IS FIRE SEASON, events like this are going to happen and unfortunately it may interrupt our recreational flying. Here are some points we need to remind ourselves of and we must also make sure visiting pilots are aware of;
– the White X means LAND NOW, DO NOT LAUNCH. NO EXCEPTIONS.
– An official TFR is NOT required for the club to make the call to put out the White X. To my knowledge there still is no TFR posted for the Summit Fire. We make the call to deploy the White X (most often) based on air traffic in the area. The fire may not be within 5 miles of the LZ or the launches, but CALFIRE and other agencies have and will fly through the area multiple times.
– The CSS has to be an active partner with CALFIRE and other agencies to ensure the safety of their pilots and aircraft, our pilots, and the safety of people on the ground who may be endangered by the fire that the emergency services are trying to fight. We cannot and WILL NOT be a hinderance to firefighting efforts.
– Typically, not always, the call to deploy the White X will made by CSS Board members who are present and or/our local Instructors. If none of the above mentioned people are on-site, the call can and should be made by experienced and knowledgeable pilots who are regular CSS members. It is a very rare occurrence that none of three categories of pilots mentioned here are not present on a flyable day.
– DO NOT question or argue with the call made to deploy the White X. A TFR is not not the minimum ‘requirement’ for the White X. We know that it’s very disappointing to have cease our flying activity when a fire fighting effort is underway, but arguing the deployment of safety precautions does not help the situation. Yesterday was a very clear situation with roughly 6 aircraft involved and making multiple runs. It was a straight forward situation with a clear outcome.
Club Issues that warrant a reminder to Club Members (continued)
The other three pilots who launched Regionals AFTER the White X was deployed, however, flew along the front ridge in excess of 2 hours and made no attempts to descend and land. CSS Board members and other pilots in the LZ continued to observe multiple firefighting aircraft pass through the airspace during that time, although there were no close calls.
As noted above, the White X was cleared from the LZ at 1820 and the three pilots still aloft landed between 1840-1900.
The first pilot to land was found not to be an active club member. He may have had a membership in the past but did not have a current club membership. That pilot was asked not return to CSS/AJX until 01 October for any flying and that he must have an active membership to fly our site. It goes without saying that he got an education on what the White X means as well why its important to maintain a current club membership.
The second two pilots landed were active club members, but both didn’t understand what the white X meant. They were both directed to review the club rules that posted on the CSS website as well as on a GIANT color poster displayed in the LZ. Both pilots were asked to take a break from flying at CSS/AJX for the next weekend and may return to flying at our site on the weekend of 7-8 SEP.
Club Issues that warrant a reminder to Club Members.
Several pilots had launched from Regionals and the 750 just prior to the White X being deployed on the LZ and quickly gained altitude in buoyant conditions. Three other pilots pilots were observed launching from Regionals AFTER the White X was on the LZ.
Radio calls were made on know frequencies the pilots were monitoring. Several of the pilots pulled big-ears and made ever effort to land as quickly as possible, and that was a hard thing to do based on conditions. It may have taken up to 20 minutes or maybe a bit more for some pilots to descend and land, but utilizing several techniques for immediate descent they were able to get down as quickly as reasonably possible. I spoke to those pilots personally and thanked them for their active efforts to get down as quick as they could.
John, it appears you are confusing loyalty to individuals vs. leadership. Please don’t put words in my mouth… I spoke with every single HG pilot in the club to campaign for a change in board leadership during a regular cycle BOD election… it was not to vote Dan out, just to vote for a different group (you used the word ‘recall’ in your post above, and that vote was at a later date for specific circumstances and did not involve membership, it was a BOD decision and it wasn’t made lightly). Dan was my Instructor and Gene was my friend… do you actually think I, or anyone, took any pleasure in the actions we had to take? Do you think we just ignored or forgot the contributions of both individuals? So I’ll just reiterate what I said before, a significant set of circumstances were present and we were forced to take action while also not trying to publicly humiliate anyone. The simple fact is, and it appears this has happened many times in the past, some people who give a lot to the club later develop a sense of entitlement and do things that wouldn’t be tolerated from any other member. It happened… it happened a lot. We aren’t giving preferential treatment anyone, ourselves included and we aren’t going to let anyone walk over the club because they feel like they are above the rules and beyond reproach.
Honestly John I’m pretty shocked, considering your background, that you would make comments about leadership without knowing the big picture. You have no idea how many times this club came danger-close to being in real trouble that would risk our lease with DWR because of the actions of a few. Maybe if you did then you’d actually be thankful there are fully-formed adults managing the business of the club.
And BTW… Jamie has put in a mind-numbing amount of hours dealing with insurance issues and ultimately got on us on a path to having the right type of insurance that the DWR approves of while also not forcing the Instructors to pay RRRG thier extortion rates. She has had to deal with State Officials (the slow grind of that wheel), as well trying to negotiate issues with USHPA, the RRRG, and some downright offensive and belligerent executives at our previous commercial insurance provider. I’m sure there are numerous people in the club who would have offered to help with type of work but I can promise you that no one we have is better equipped to have managed it as diplomatically and as strategically than Jamie did. Also… I shouldn’t have to bring this up, but as an HG pilot you should know how long Jamie has been involved with organizing Comps and keeping the sport going. So if you are going to insult her leadership ability without knowing the facts, that says way more about you than it does about any of us.
John, we never asked any members to recall anyone. We wanted members to vote for a board that wouldn’t do harm to the club. It took more than a year to recover from the damage that was caused by the site insurance issue. If you want to know more about it, you could have attend BOD meetings or read the meeting minutes.
In terms of how we handle issues with like Site-Bans and the removal of Board Members… The findings are made public for transparency reasons, however in general we maintain some sense of privacy for those involved. In short, we are not airing dirty laundry or dragging people through the mud. You are obviously not informed about the total picture of circumstances.
By calories I am assuming you mean how much skin some of the board members have in the game? You have no idea of how much work has been done behind the scenes by board members. Putting up with gossip, speculation, immaturity, and sense of entitlement by a loud minority of members accounts for 95% of the stress we put up with when we all have full-time jobs/families/priorities etc. outside of club board responsibilities.
I don’t think so, Owen is out of town this weekend.
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