CSS isnt the only chapter to choose alternate  or even no coverage in lieu of RRRG.

I think they forgot who works for whom. The mission statement too, like FFF did.

“CSS isnt the only chapter to choose alternate  or even no coverage in lieu of RRRG.”

But, Dan, we could be the only club to do it without notifying membership beforehand. That’s the point of contention. Doing it in secret.

Don’t change the subject. Look at Jerome’s initial post that started this thread.

CSS no longer has USHPA insurance.

Dan,

Can you provide meeting minutes from when this went to vote?

Insurance is just another commodity Jerome.

When you buy groceries you shouldn’t have the cashier telling you how to cook your dinner.

Unfortunate, that it worked out that way.

I was on the BoD in 2021 when the insurance was being discussed and changed. The first contender for coverage backed out for some reason- maybe since it was aviation related- I don’t remember. Then Stan came up with the current company’s plan and we were led to believe was that it would not affect the general membership, just instructors and what they pay RRRG to instruct. I voted along with the instructors because I had no dog in the fight and was told it was legit and I trusted the leadership. We (the rest of the board) were never shown the policy and I didn’t know it was a BIG SECRET until Stan was whining about not having access to the pond since the XCR owners didn’t know what was covered. It was quite a fight to get Stan to send the policy to XCR owners- and it was mysteriously with sworn secrecy- that they’d show it to no one. They were wise to look over the policy, and have a real lawyer take a look, as it was revealed to leave them wide open to liability.
It makes me wonder- what else don’t we know about the other dealings the musketeers have been up to?
(and when you’re making vegetable soup, your grocery list isn’t just ham, chocolate, or bananas- because that was just as relevant a comment as another 🙄)

To what Dan said above, deciding on insurance issues is a difficult thing. It’s the type of thing that should be handled at the BOD level. It’s not something that should be looked at as a popularity contest and be voted on by the membership in general. Insurance policies are very complicated and it’s not reasonable to expect that we could properly educate all the members so that they could collectively make the right decision.

I’m not an insurance expert by any means, my background is in business and accounting. I’ve read both policies cover to cover, the RRRG policy and the NEXT policy, several times. I don’t recommend that anyone try to do this without wearing a helmet, because it makes your brain want to explode.

The best way to describe the RRRG policy is that it is like a plate of spaghetti. It’s a list of coverages and a long list of exclusions from coverage, which is typical for insurance, but when you read through the exclusions it’s easy to think of ways that they could deny coverage for accidents that happen on club property.

The NEXT policy also has coverages and exclusions, but it is much more rational and reasonable and the policy is much easier to make sense of.

The claim made by Jamie that the “Schedule of Project or Operation” essentially eliminates coverage for HG and PG accidents is just not a correct reading of this policy. But she and I have already debated this and haven’t been able to come to an agreement on this issue. Both Jai Pal and myself have called NEXT to discuss the policy with their personnel and we’ve been assured that we do have the insurance that we think we have. And we know that the policy has been submitted to our landlord, the DWR, and they have reviewed and approved it.

As to the complaint that we’re no longer covering the CCR, well that’s just the nature of property insurance. They have a property that is separate from ours. Their property is obviously different and more complicated than ours. They have a rental house, the pond, the stables, etc. and so they have different insurance needs. They need their own comprehensive policy.

What’s clear to me now is that they never had insurance for their property like they thought they had, even when we were with the RRRG. The key thing to understand is that the RRRG only insures USHPA members and it only insures them for accidents related to their flying activities. So, injuries and accidents incurred by USHPA members lounging around the pond area, swimming in the pond or jumping off the deck were never covered. Non-USHPA friends and family recreating at the pond were never covered for anything at all. The only conceivable thing that the RRRG would cover at the pond is if a pilot came out of the sky and crashed into someone, causing an injury. That’s pretty much it.

A quick comparison of NEXT vs. the RRRG through Google finds that NEXT is much more substantial than RRRG. NEXT has an AM Best rating of A-(Excellent) and has been funded by investors to around $881,000,000. The RRRG itself doesn’t seem to have a rating from AM Best, but has to advertise the ratings of the reinsurance companies behind them (which are good ratings). And the RRRG’s funding is minimal, something like $3,000,000.

This insurance issue is one of the most difficult issues that the BOD has had to deal with. Please recognize that we are making decisions with the best interests of the club in mind.

Jeff, thanks for clarifying this important issue for all of us. Being on the BOD is a big responsibility and I, for one, am grateful to you and the rest of the board for investing the time and energy you do to help us conduct the club’s business. Anyone who has read this far in the discussion gets a gold star! This stuff does make your head want to explode, but education is key in these matters. Reading and understanding the issues is of paramount importance. In addition to the board, those of you (especially Jerome, Tim and Jaime) who have participated faithfully in educating the rest of us deserve deep respect and gratitude from all club members with goodwill in their hearts. And that SHOULD be all of us. Having said all this, the issue of club insurance is important and very technical. IMHO the policy should be available to any club member on request so they can conduct a “deep dive” if they so desire. We’ve recently had an opportunity to vote on board members and that will settle, for now, any questions about member support for club leadership. The exact answer to this insurance dilemma is not totally clear now, but I’m feeling better informed thanks to the efforts of all participating in this forum to educate and enlighten dumb guys like me.

On a separate but related note: Owen and Len bought the CCR not to make a profit, but to do right by the CSS. They wanted to preserve our right to use the LZ by removing the possibility of a landowner hostile to our interests. They have invested in the CCR because they are/were pilots, and they want what’s best for the flying community. So how do we honor them? Are we good partners? Do we make them glad to be associated with us? Have we shown gratitude for the fact that they, alone, were willing to put up significant cash to buy the property? Have we treated their land with respect when we use it? All of us should ask ourselves these questions. Personally, I really love swimming in the pond. My little girl learned to swim there. It brought happiness to her little heart. I hope we can one day have parties at the pond again.