Home Forums Events & Projects Major Decision being considered by CSS.

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  • #17202

    Jerome, I agree wholeheartedly with you. We need a Secretary who gets accurate notes and publishes them quickly to the Board for approval and distribution.  Thank you.

    #17204
    Jerome Daoust
    General Member

    Just wondering what would be the appropriate amount for the CSS to pay for the ranch…

    Some refer to Zillow’s listing and current value. Real estate values are still relatively high, but what would happen if it was the opposite and the ranch’s value had dropped from the time it was purchased by its current owners, would the CSS acquire it for less and have owners accept a loss? That does not seem right. So I am just asking, without knowing the answer…

    • For the current situation where values are high, should the owners be offered by CSS the current market value? If they want to sell now, they can refuse a lower CSS offer than the market allows.
    • Disregarding market value, would current owners be satisfied with CSS offering the original investment, upgrades and some interest on the initial investment? Let’s refer to this as the “Investment+Interest” price.
    • Should CSS wait/hope for a market adjustment such that the market value matches the above “Investment+Interest” price, realizing that there is a risk of the property selling to someone else before? But maybe we are near this situation if Zillow correctly states the January 27 2006 sale price of 525 k$.
    • Could the CSS buy the property and to avoid a big mortgage, offer shares of ownership? I have seen this at another flying site, and one can expect share owners later seeking resale with interest. Proper share owner contracts can avoid future squabbles.

    Good luck in the negotiation, I hope everybody can agree and be comfortable.

    #17205
    David Hards
    General Member

    This is my 2 cents

    The club over the years has put alot of effort into making the LZ/Ranch what it was a few years back when camping, fly ins and membership breakfasts thrived. There was members who volunteered to install the sprinklers and run electric lines from John’s house up to the pond and back down to the shade structure and wifi was installed for our members.

    Unfortunately all that has gone away due to the last five years board of directors.

    5 years ago the BOD said “We can police our selves” So we got rid of the site monitor. Why? The site monitor not only checks pilots for CSS and USHPA membership, but also collected day use fees and promoted club membership to non members.

    How much money has the club lost over the last 5 years?

    If the club brought back a monitor instead of “Self Policing” and brought back Fly ins, which we had 4 a year, those funds could help pay monthly payments and possibly contribute towards the purchase of the Ranch.

    So we cut ties with the Ranch and they decide to sell, we no longer have water (potable and sprinklers) Electricity, WiFi and future camping and pond usage.

    This should decided by the members and not BOD!

    The money spent on the new shade structure could have made a down payment!

     

    #17206
    Gary Anderson
    General Member

    In an earlier post Jai Pal said: “That is patently not true. The fact is that the CSS agreement for water and access to XCRanch expired on 12-31-22 and we have been exploring renewal, renegotiation or alternate solutions to benefit the Membership and the club, as fiduciaries of CSS.”

    This is not correct. The agreement, which was approved by the general membership through a ballot in the fall of 2019, does not have an expiration date and it is not an agreement for water. I negotiated that agreement with the XCR and the removal of the expiration date was requested by the CSS BoD. The agreement between CSS and XCR and the content of the approved ballot follows:

    “The Crestline Soaring Society (CSS) agrees to pay the Cross Country Ranch (XCR) $1800 / month for access to the XCR and shared utilities. At any time during the term either party can elect to end the agreement with a 30 day notice.  The CSS BoD has the authority to continue this agreement.”

    Note that the CSS members gave the CSS BoD the authority to continue the agreement but did not give the CSS BoD the authority to discontinue the agreement. That was not an accident but was discussed during negotiations.

    #17207
    Gary Anderson
    General Member

    Opportunity Cost

    An earlier post suggested that the owners accept something less than fair market value for the XCR. That is unreasonable and unfair. I do not know the fair market value of the land but $530,000 invested a generic S&P index fund in 2005 would be worth around $2,400,000 today. That includes the market decline of 2022 but does not include the cost of money, which was remarkably cheap the past 15 years.

    The owners of the XCR are intelligent adults who understand time and money, and they understood their opportunity cost for this acquisition. Clearly, they did not buy the XCR for profit. For CSS to offer less then fair market value for the land is unreasonable and unfair, and possibly vindictive.

    #17208

    Not so fast. As Rob stated they invested 110k and financed 420k. Interest only at 4% would be 1,400 per month, 16,800 a year. 5,000 a year property tax would bring that to 21,800 per year. Now I know Jon was paying 1,800 per month back in 2010. I seriously doubt that hasn’t gone up since but let’s just use that number. So between Jon’s rent and CSS water that’s 3,600 per month 43,200 per year. That’s a profit of 21,400 per year. 17 years later that’s a profit of 363,800 profit. Not to mention the tax benefits they received and all the free labor provided by club members to improve the property.

    #17209

    516671F2-FE4B-4CBE-9B82-BFA24F6FFE72B841B254-0B62-48DD-9965-DAC76ABC563E

    #17227
    Linda Salamone
    General Member

    ’In an earlier post Jai Pal said: “That is patently not true. The fact is that the CSS agreement for water and access to XCRanch expired on 12-31-22 and we have been exploring renewal, renegotiation or alternate solutions to benefit the Membership and the club, as fiduciaries of CSS.” ‘
    CreepVeep LIED???? Nooooooooo how can that be??? He’s been so upfront about EVERYTHING ELSE.
    astonishing.

    #17230

    I heard at the last Board meeting and seen posts claiming that if we quit paying the XC ranch, the owners will sell the ranch to a developer who would be able to get a zone change and build multiple units on the ranch. Then, the homeowners would sue us to prevent us from flying over their properties to land at the LZ. I don’t think this is a real possibility. When the ranch was for sale, I was considering buying it along with another pilot. I went to the county to see what development potential there was. The county told me that they would not allow a zone change to allow more than two homes because there is no sewer system serving that area and everyone is on septic tanks. The county said they would not allow more than two homes because the increased septic systems would threaten and likely contaminate the aquifer below. This means there is no real possibility of a developer having an interest in buying the ranch, and even if one did, it would only be able to build a second home at the max. Besides the new owners could be as friendly as the neighbors east and west of the XCR. Like we built a training hill in the next door neighbor’s property along with a trailer park and they haven’t said a word. The club does not have the funds to buy the ranch even if mass donations would be handed to the club. So why all the fuss. The ranch has enough water to keep green grass all year long, but not enough to keep the pond full to the max for swimming during the summer so we need to pick a priority either grass or swimming.

    #17231

    OMG Linda, stop the name-calling! Everyone knows you don’t like our VP. He’s a volunteer, we need our volunteers. EVERYONE, please stop the finger-pointing, snide remarks, he said she said BS! Nothing good comes from it. I for one appreciate every one of our board of directors for doing their thankless jobs and making the hard decisions to TRY and keep everyone happy!

    #17232
    Jeff Boehler
    General Member

    I vote for grass in the LZ per Marcello’s post.

    I agree with Tom, to much bitchin going on.

    There has been a lot of good posts and information brought up on this subject matter by the pilots. All great things to consider when trying to come to a direction the members would like to aim for.

    This club has a huge and vast variety of talent that volunteers their time and efforts for all of us. It sure seems with all of the smart people around, eventually, we’ll have an agreement that works with the Ranch & CSS.

    Have some patience and give it some time.

    KEEP VOLUNTEERING, IT ALL HELPS!

    IMG_3171

     

    #17233
    David Hards
    General Member

    Tom,

    9Yes a volunteer like the rest of us but flip flops when cornered.  Makes alot of promises, then when cornered, says it was never said!

    #17234

    Dave, where’s the flip-flop? I haven’t heard or read it. Just because someone said there was doesn’t mean it’s true. Ideas are discussed and decisions are made. Sometimes those ideas and decisions change after discussions. Just like what we went through for a new shade structure. Then after the dust settled and all the unnecessary bickering we now have an amazing and beautiful shade structure.

     

    #17237
    David Hards
    General Member

    Tom,

    At the meeting where we viewed the new shade structure designs, I was against building the current structure due to the cost. I questioned where the funds would come from since we no longer hire monitors and have done away with fly ins that generate money.

    He told me and a few others sitting next to me that his Hollywood friends and actually said Brian Cranston and others will be more than happy to donate the funds.

    When he was asked a few weeks later about the donations from his Hollywood friends he said, I never said that!

    Flip flop

     

    #17240

    Dave, that’s past history. There are two sides to every story. I didn’t vote for the current structure either. I’m happy with the way it turned out. Where’s the flip-flop on the current discussion?

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