October 27, 2020 at 5:18 PM #10604
I’m starting this new topic to solicit suggestions from you on what the new shade structure should look like. For example, do you want the roof to extend across and over the kitchen area? Do you want an observation deck? How about a shaded glider packing area? Please give us your thoughts while we have an architect come up with a design for a better-than-ever new shade structure. Just suggestions–nothing else in this thread. Once we have a good idea of what everyone generally wants, we will post a design to see what you think.October 27, 2020 at 5:23 PM #10605David WebbGeneral Member
I propose a more visible area to post the approach pattern and site guideline posters (someplace that’s hard to miss and not blocked by seating or pilots hanging out). I think because of the benches they were getting missed by visitors not wanting to push through a group of people sitting on the benches.
Also, blackjack table and full bar.October 28, 2020 at 7:54 AM #10615
We could have maybe a big column next to where the HG bags currently get dropped off. That would be in your initial field of view as you come up the north steps.October 28, 2020 at 2:38 PM #10625Marc DeschenesGeneral Member
Since winds often turn west at the end of the afternoon, a roof height and design that creates the least turbulence should be the priority.October 28, 2020 at 4:01 PM #10626David WebbGeneral Member
Adding Tim’s items from the other thread:
As long as we’re doing it, cover the entire concrete slab area, kitchen area included. Maybe pour the missing southeast corner as well. The missing northeast corner is steep enough that leaving it as grass is probably okay.
Bring the eaves of the structure down to possibly 8 feet from 10. Having some slope on the roof will make it drain. The flat roof dripped for a long time after a rain. Lower eaves will give shade earlier in the day.
Build it with welded steel trusses. Possibly concrete or masonry columns. I suspect part of the issue here was rot at the base of the wooden posts. I’ll have to get out there and look. One turning loose would be all it took.
Extend the roof on the west side, and have a vertical plywood wall on the edge of the slope. Put in some hammocks or shelves to hold PGs and harnesses out of the wind and sun. That will leave more space for people on the east, social side of the container. It will also cover up the ugly infrastructure side of the container, and shade the A/C unit.October 28, 2020 at 5:53 PM #10628Mario MirallesGeneral Member
Not sure how much of an issue the old structure caused, but I second what Marc points out about considering turbulence.October 28, 2020 at 6:36 PM #10630George StebbinsGeneral Member
I third Marc’s point about the turbulence. I’ve seen and felt the issue when it gets west in the afternoon, especially if it is stronger.
Related to that: As much as I’d like to connect the kitchen area to the shade structure, I’d be hesitant to do that roof-wise. The farther North we take the roof, the worse we’ll make the turbulence in the approach pattern, I suspect. Although, I’ve had more issues when exiting the wind-shadow just at time to flare than with direct turbulence. Your mileage may differ.
If we are building it from (almost) scratch, I’d suggest wiring it during the build, if possible. Outlets available would be nice. A minor thing, but a nice touch.October 28, 2020 at 7:52 PM #10631Mark HoffmannGeneral Member
Thanks Marc… good point…October 29, 2020 at 1:06 PM #10640
On a clean-sheet redesign, it would probably make more sense to orient shade E/W instead of N/S, and put it backed up against the slope by the candy cane, between the candy cane and the road.
Or at one point I had this fantasy of putting all the storage containers next to the LZ, in the immediate vicinity of the north stairs. There would be some digging to put their roofs about the same height as the E/W runway. Then build a patio on top of that.
For the kitchen area to have much utility, it needs to have shade at the minimum. I think it should keep rain off as well.
Minimizing the wind shadow is all well and good, but I think we’re going to have to live with some of our past decisions, absent someone getting a very large grant.October 29, 2020 at 8:03 PM #10643
Loving all the ideas. Just thinking about maybe incorporating a dedicated classroom area where HG and PG instructors can give white-board lessons, or just have a place where they can teach without people walking through and interrupting too much. Originally we were talking about creating a shaded area where the storage containers are for that and we can still do that, but if we’re rebuilding, let’s also think about a little classroom/area.
Oh, and a place to hang the harness simulator for PG and HG. Maybe even properly install the reserve toss simulator! I’m told there’s one at the Cross Country Ranch, but not very stable/usable.October 30, 2020 at 3:11 PM #10644Gary AndersonGeneral Member
I agree with the other pilots that turbulence needs to be the highest priority when designing the shade structure. We should also consider the impact of the kitchen shade on the North approach. As I remember, there was no risk assessment that considered turbulence or encroachment on the North approach when we built the kitchen and when we added the shade structure over the kitchen.October 30, 2020 at 3:47 PM #10648Gary AndersonGeneral Member
What if we lowered the shade structure and kitchen like a baseball dugout?
Maybe the baseball dugout is not the best idea but we should think bigger than just the “lowest cost” shade structure. Most of the labor will likely be volunteer work so why not!November 2, 2020 at 7:54 AM #10659Michael MeadowsGeneral Member
To reduce the lift vector on the roof during high winds, you’d think we could come up with a simple spoiler system to take care of that laminar flow as well as all those pesky Bernoulli’s. Might pay in the long run…just thinking how roofs and wings share just a few characteristics.November 9, 2020 at 6:07 PM #10694Tom MorrisonGeneral Member
It seems like an eternity since I have flown at Andy Jackson but perhaps if things improve with Covid19 I will be back in the spring. This is what is on my wish list.
1) Install a reserve parachute toss simulator
2) Install a parachute repack shelf
3) Lots of USB charging plugs
4) External speakers to listen to pilot chatter on radios
Cheers Tom MorrisonNovember 9, 2020 at 9:28 PM #10695Marc DeschenesGeneral Member
I’m against external speakers. You always have the option of listening to the chatter with earbuds. With external speakers, you’re forcing other pilots to listen to it whether they want to or not.
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