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** Jerome, thanks for the update and links. All of this data is current and valid. **
The NFS closure is still in effect and remains unchanged. We will continue to respect that closure and not fly east of HWY 18.
This was not a decision of any individuals, and it is presented as an order because it IS an ORDER from a federal agency. If anyone is doubtful about that they can review the document again: (the word ORDER is right in the title) https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd1208071.pdf
The CSS BOD did not impose a restriction, the NFS Order did that. Our launches are on NFS land and we will respect that organization’s efforts to handle forest fire management. If you disagree with NFS orders then you are free to contact that agency and voice your concerns. If you disagree with the disparity between posted FAA TFRs and NFS closure maps you are also free to voice your concerns with those agencies respectively. If you feel your rights to go fly and have fun have been violated during a time of emergency, go hire an attorney and file a suit against the NFS and the FAA (good luck with that).
Meanwhile, CSS members are still able to utilize launches, fly (with minor limitations), and train at the AJX LZ… all while respecting the agencies that are trying to protect our natural resources, private property, and human lives.
As soon as the NFS modifies the closure map or rescinds the order we will update the membership. I actually expect this to happen toward the end of the month.
And Yes, we are still getting water from the Pond. That is the only source of water for the irrigation system. There have been supply problems that have prevented the Pond to be able to fill up fast enough or recover from each irrigation cycle. We are doing our best to solve those issues.
Mark,
Yes, I understand we were all talking about just the PG corner. I’m sorry that I didn’t make that clear. My points are still the same… it’s still very expensive, even for just a small area. To be safe it needs to be installed correctly, not just draped over the surface like it is in the breakdown area. Also, it will need gopher ‘armor’, which is wire mesh under the surface to prevent them from digging up through the surface.
I agree with Jerome, it would be awesome to do it over the edge as well. All of this will take some heavy machine work but it can be done. It will be expensive, but we can save costs by purchasing used athletic turf.Mark, we’ve been over this multiple times. Artificial turf is very expensive, slippery when damp, and if not installed correctly becomes a the same trip hazard or missile hazard in the winds as carpet.
The grass was doing fine until we hit temps over 100 degrees and that was a month before we started experiencing water shortages. It happens every year, our LZ is in the high desert! The weed treatments did not cause this, during the entire spring we had a mostly weed free LZ.
I will offer this alternative for the PGs, I think it will work… We could permanently Astro Turf the PG corner of the LZ. Yes, it will be expensive… BUT… it would allow us to reduce the foot print of sprinklers that would save water for the rest of the LZ. It would give the PG kiting area a ‘clean’ lay down area year round. The cons are, it’s expensive and the PGs would have to accept the risk that it becomes a thermal trigger in the warmer months. Just a possibility. I also think we should permanently Astro turf the first 20 ft around the entire Pavilion. It’s a high traffic area and we would again be able to reduce the footprint of sprinklers plus I wouldn’t have to get too close with the lawnmower while people might be seated inside.I’m with Jana on this one, the risks are too high for flying debris when the rainy season is just around the corner.
For future reference, if anyone has requests like this please email them to the BOD. Our email addresses are all listed on this website, and many club members have our phone numbers as well.
Some additional clarification:
– Don’t fly east of where Hwy 18 goes up-mountain from San Bernadino to Crestline. Consider it a longitude and Do Not cross to the east of it. There is still CAL FIRE aircraft activity and we will not get in their way. We also do not want the risk of anyone landing out in the fire affected zone (closure area).
– Further on the above point, DO NOT fly east and claim that you are north of Highway 18 (Rim of the World Scenic Hwy). The two risks previously sated above apply. DON’T DO IT.
– If you use a launch to the north that that leads to XC routes to the north (Blackhawk), you should be both launching and flying well clear of the closure area. Be certain that your launch and your intended flight keep you clear of the closure area and at no risk of landing out within the closure area, as long as you accomplish that there should be no issues.
– When climbing over Marshall peak or behind it and you intend to transition to the back ridge, you must stay west of Hwy 18. Notice the little dog leg at the far west limit of the closure area? That’s Panorama Point and we all typically fly right over that. I know it’s hard, but DON’T DO IT. If you can’t stay west of Hwy 18 completely then don’t attempt flying to the back ridge, stay out front!
We’ve all been given a chance to continue enjoying free flight at our club despite a major fire, don’t mess it up by attempting to skirt the rules. There will be eyes on us, so fly safely and make good choices. Even if someone lands out well clear of the closure area, that can still have negative implications if a rescue is required. Have fun, but let’s keep it low-key and not take any unnecessary risks.
Admin, go ahead and close this thread. I’ll make a new post about the limited opening.
I’ve confirmed with NFS the details of the updated closure order and we will be able to open CSS for site flying. XC flights will be limited because we can’t go into the airspace of the closure area. Please stand by while we create a post that has the current maps and details. In a nutshell, we are able to use the launches and we can open for site flying, only XC routes will be to the west of launches. Give us some time to make the updates and be sure you clearly understand where the no-go zone is before you run out and launch!
I spoke with the NFS again on Wednesday, a lady from the Washington DC HQ who has been dispatched to help with the fires.
She said that she agreed that the language in the order was ambiguous & vague, she apologized for it but said that by the time they release any new superseding orders or corrections all this will probably be over anyway.
People or Instructors from our club are not the only parties who have questioned the order, they are fielding calls from many businesses on the mountain who are asking permission to operate. Unfortunately they aren’t considering any exceptions for anyone right now. The time would take to go through the administrative process to approve any special permissions or access would probably exceed the NOV 30 planned end date, and its likely that the order will be turned down a few notches before then anyway.
There were two flare ups on Thursday and Friday so that has only proven the NFS position that this isn’t over yet and there is still significant risk. The best thing we can hope for is some rain to improve their ‘outlook’ on the situation and consider relaxing restrictions.
The Line Fire is now 75% contained. As we approach the end of September I expect there is good chance that NFS will shrink the footprint of the closure area and ease some restrictions. I’m in active communications with the SB NFS Supervisor’s Office and the Ranger in Charge.
Keep in mind what I said above is an optimistic view due to successful fire-fighting efforts on the part of CAL Fire and participating agencies. To be realistic (or pessimistic if that’s better fit), there is an equal chance that the NFS will keep the entire SB National Forest closed for the immediate future just to mitigate the risk of another fire. The best thing we can hope for that would prevent that reality is RAIN. A healthy dose of moisture on the dry vegetation in the mountains would ease the fire risk condition and encourage opening things back up to the public. Stay tuned…
Mark, nobody thanked you because you didn’t clarify a single thing. The forest order is clear and CSS will observe it. You’re welcome to call the NFS Supervisor’s office and tell the Public Affairs Officer that he’s just a social director and his word doesn’t hold much legal weight… good luck with that.
I just spoke with the NFS Supervisor for S.B. National Forest (who is also the Public Affairs Officer). I also reviewed the current status of the Line fire (57% contained as of Saturday morning 21 SEP), also all Evacuation Warnings have been lifted.
– The exemption for Residents is to allow them to use the roads that are closed (to everyone else) so they can access their homes & businesses.
– Any exemptions DO NOT apply to non-essential activities or recreation of ANY kind. So even Locals would be cited for hiking, camping, off-roading, anything and yes, flying.
– The NFS recognizes that they cannot close Airspace but that does NOT mean we can or should fly. We know and they know that the intent of the CSS to close Free Flight with respect to Forest Closure Orders has more to do with preventing a situation that could require Emergency Services (a helicopter rescue in the forest) that would distract those resources from the larger fire fighting effort and risk starting another fire.
– The NFS PAO encourages CSS members to be patient as the Line fire situation is actively managed and the NFS order could be narrowed, limited, or rescinded at any time before NOV 30.
I just spoke with the NFS Supervisor for S.B. National Forest (who is also the Public Affairs Officer). I also reviewed the current status of the Line fire (57% contained as of Saturday morning 21 SEP), also all Evacuation Warnings have been lifted.
– The exemption for Residents is to allow them to use the roads that are closed (to everyone else) so they can access their homes & businesses.
– Any exemptions DO NOT apply to non-essential activities or recreation of ANY kind. So even Locals would be cited for hiking, camping, off-roading, anything and yes, flying.
– The NFS recognizes that they cannot close Airspace but that does NOT mean we can or should fly. We know and they know that the intent of the CSS to close Free Flight with respect to Forest Closure Orders has more to do with preventing a situation that could require Emergency Services (a helicopter rescue in the forest) that would distract those resources from the larger fire fighting effort and risk starting another fire.
– The NFS PAO encourages CSS members to be patient as the Line fire situation is actively managed and the NFS order could be narrowed, limited, or rescinded at any time before NOV 30.
FYI, this occurred in Sept 2021 when the SB National Forest was closed for essentially the whole month… right in the middle of prime thermal flying season. The 30 NOV closure date for the current order might be a bit of a surprise for some, but considering some of the devastating fires that have occurred across the state over the last two years, it makes sense.
With that said, its is likely they assigned an end date that is more than two months away out of an abundance of caution. If anything changes we will update this post accordingly. Hopefully things turn out for the better and the order will end earlier than currently listed.
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