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Tim WardGeneral Member
So I’m a little unclear. Is this to be in the same general vicinity as the existing concrete, or (as shorthand, not literally) backed up against the candy cane?
I’m not actually too fussed either way, just unsure as to what the consensus is.
Tim WardGeneral MemberIf you look very closely, there *is* a harness.
Wolfie is daring, no doubt, but he’s not suicidal.Tim WardGeneral MemberYou’ll be pleased to know that in preliminary discussions with J. Paul, we’re looking at insetting the storage box and kitchen area into that berm over by the candy cane.
There will be some shade where the existing concrete is, but most vertical structure (like the box and wall) that cause turbulence will be gone.
Tim WardGeneral MemberAs long as we’re doing a complete reimagining of the LZ facilities, consider this pipe dream:
Digging out the very top of the parking lot to inset the existing storage containers.
Some reinforced concrete on top, then some dirt and/or grass.
This would add area to the East approach, making it wider.
This would open up all the area where the containers currently are for parking.
And that parking would be gravitationally advantageous.
Having a wider area would make it easier to have multiple rows of cars.
Yes, we get an extra row in now, but it’s pretty tight.
Storage would be much closer to the LZ, too.Tim WardGeneral Member“As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!”
Tim WardGeneral MemberYep, thanks, Mario. That’s very handy. I dragged it around a little and still picked up a variety of screws and nails.
I suspect we’ll be doing that for some time before it doesn’t come up with anything.
Tim WardGeneral MemberOn a clean-sheet redesign, it would probably make more sense to orient shade E/W instead of N/S, and put it backed up against the slope by the candy cane, between the candy cane and the road.
Or at one point I had this fantasy of putting all the storage containers next to the LZ, in the immediate vicinity of the north stairs. There would be some digging to put their roofs about the same height as the E/W runway. Then build a patio on top of that.
For the kitchen area to have much utility, it needs to have shade at the minimum. I think it should keep rain off as well.
Minimizing the wind shadow is all well and good, but I think we’re going to have to live with some of our past decisions, absent someone getting a very large grant.
Tim WardGeneral MemberBecause someone has to be responsible and retract them.
We can’t keep the freaking door locked overnight on the container.
I’m there quite a bit, but I’m not always the last one there.
Rather than minimum cost right now, we should be thinking maximum utility over the next 25 to 50 years
I think spending money on a professionally engineered solution now is going to be cheaper in the long run.
I’m pretty sure we had fewer than 100 members when the former structure got built. Granted, it came together a little higgledy-piggledy, and at relatively low cost to the club, because IIRC a large portion of the materials were donated by members. Pretty much all the labor was. If we had built the bottom of the columns in a way that didn’t let them deteriorate due to moisture, we might still have it.
But now we have 200+ members, and multiple instructors. Even if most of the students don’t hang around and become regular users, they’re still wanting shade in between kiting while they’re students.
Maybe the plan should plan on taking the building in stages, but in a modular and expandable way.
Tim WardGeneral MemberWe could have maybe a big column next to where the HG bags currently get dropped off. That would be in your initial field of view as you come up the north steps.
Tim WardGeneral MemberI like the hip roofs. No matter which way the wind comes it’s at a negative AoA. Well, zero, I suppose, overall, but you know what I mean.
That suggests an idea to me: a vented hip. Viewed from the side, in ascii art it would look something like: / —– \ , although I expect the slashes would be at much lower angles, and there would be more overlap with the hyphens.
I’m not sure how you’d calculate what the optimum opening at the top is. You’d want the air displaced by one side to “shade” the positive AoA of the other.
On the other hand, a flat roof would probably work, because it did, until it got structurally compromised by rot.
Tim WardGeneral MemberPerfect kiting weather. Shouldn’t have any trouble getting the canopy to come up.
Tim WardGeneral MemberJai Paul is an architect, and has kindly volunteered to supervise the design. He says he’ll design to code, upgraded to 130 mph wind, which is comfortably above anything I’ve ever seen out there.
I’ll trust calculation over “that looks about right.”
Tim WardGeneral MemberMark:
There are metal roofs that are guaranteed to 125 mph, so I’m told.
I don’t have an issue either way. The roof we had was metal.
Tim WardGeneral MemberI was out looking at the remains, and I think what happened was that the wood on the columns deteriorated due to moisture. So a load that it might have taken ten years ago just separated the wood. The bolts holding the bottom end are still in the metal brackets.
I’m not opposed to a structural ‘fuse’, so that things break at expected points, but in general, I think I’d rather just make sure it stays together.
We have quite a variety of skills in the club, and I doubt I’m the most qualified to design a new building.
I’ve looked at prefabbed steel buildings in the past, but they’re pretty pricey. How that compares with the time/money we’d spend designing/fabricating our own I dunno. They’re generally designed like pole barns, which wouldn’t be bad, giving a large clear span, but they have many posts along each side. That’s not so bad for a barn, or on the windward side, where I want to put a wall anyway, but on the east side I’d like a big free span as well.
If we could get a prefab roof and put it on some big trusses spanning the length of the concrete with only a few support columns, that might be good.
Google “steel carports” to see the kind of thing I was looking at.
Looking at what’s gone, though, if there was a solid wall between the two sets of steps, and we didn’t replace the south sink (since there’s still a sink in the kitchen area), the unobstructed shade area at each end of the container could be much bigger.
Tim WardGeneral MemberWell, it’s unfortunate, and it will be expensive to replace, but my thoughts are:
As long as we’re doing it, cover the entire concrete slab area, kitchen area included. Maybe pour the missing southeast corner as well. The missing northeast corner is steep enough that leaving it as grass is probably okay.
Bring the eaves of the structure down to possibly 8 feet from 10. Having some slope on the roof will make it drain. The flat roof dripped for a long time after a rain. Lower eaves will give shade earlier in the day.
Build it with welded steel trusses. Possibly concrete or masonry columns. I suspect part of the issue here was rot at the base of the wooden posts. I’ll have to get out there and look. One turning loose would be all it took.
extend the roof on the west side, and have a vertical plywood wall on the edge of the slope. Put in some hammocks or shelves to hold PGs and harnesses out of the wind and sun. That will leave more space for people on the east, social side of the container. It will also cover up the ugly infrastructure side of the container, and shade the A/C unit.
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