Home Forums Events & Projects Cross Country Ranch Payment

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    An email went out to all members:
    “CSS Ballot Measure 2023-01 CCR Payment – Draft for Member Review”

    This is for the purpose of discussion and commenting on the Cross Country Ranch Payment only.

    This will last for 3 weeks, as per the last Board meeting.

    There is NO ballot for the Cross Country Ranch Payment yet.

    Please send any comments to me at communications@crestlinesoaring.org, and I will pass them on to the Board Members.

    Kirk Mccrary
    General Member

    Thanks for the additional clarification.
    Now some suggestions, fwiw:

    “Discussion and comment” would be facilitated by:
    STATING A SPECIFIC forum for doing so … preferably here.
    Make it specifically & exclusively about discussion of ballot/voting points.

    There’s chatter here and on Telegram, and presumably on other social media (which many of us don’t bother with). Disbursed chatter tends to produce personal attack nonsense.  Put it here, please – and be sure it’s specific.

    Provide dates
    Instead of saying comment period is for “three weeks,” give an end date.

    Provide specific date and time when comments on ballot will be closed.

    Provide specific date for when ballot will be live.

    Finally, it’d be helpful to also post a date for announcing officer election results, and when new term starts … since it seems a change in the board may be coming, and render the CCR issues moot.


    Gary Anderson
    General Member

    Has anyone on the BoD discussed the specific content of the ballot with the owners of the Country Ranch? Do the owners of the Cross Country Ranch agree with the specific content of the ballot?

    Gary Anderson
    General Member

    I thought that we were supposed to use this thread for questions and comments on the draft of the upcoming ballot. If that’s correct, why can’t I get an answer to a straight forward question?


    Gary, I was waiting to see if a board member would answer, but since no answer seems forthcoming here is a piece of information.

    4-6-8 (?) weeks ago, the majority owner of the CCR, I would assume that would be an accurate description of him, sent an email to Stan and the board that he, the CCR owner, had no interest in renegotiating any aspect of the agreement and the matter was closed as far as he was concerned.

    Stan knows this fact yet he has not mentioned it at all.  I did not want to be the one who brought this up because I accidentally deleted the email so I cannot copy it here, but based on that email I would say the board knows where the CCR ranch stands on our current agreement.



    Alan Crouse
    General Member

    It seems as though the ballot was at least partially the result of incorrect information during the last board meeting.  BOD members understood at the time that the Ranch agreement had not been voted on by the members as required under the bylaws see Minutes of March 18 meeting (minutes have not yet been approved as the next meeting has not yet occurred so they are subject to correction).

    That understanding has since been corrected by a member who located the previous ballot result (73 in favor of the Ranch agreement and 1 opposed) and the question on the ballot (giving the BOD authority to continue the renewals) 2019 Ballot

    Given the significance of corrected information, it seems a new vote is not required, and the action taken at the March 18 meeting should be rescinded.

    My 2 cents…



    Dan DeWeese
    General Member
    CSS Instructor


    The votes from ’18-’20 were to continue for one calendar year, the agreement from 2011.

    The revised agreement proposed by ranch in 2017 contained no mention of water in the scope due to it being somehow illegal or against some statute to sell water. I dont know if it is or not, and I’m not going to do the legwork to find out either. If it is, my knowledge of it and choosing to keep it out of the contract in writing while letting its sale continue, makes me complicit in obfuscating that fact had I signed that proposal. So I didnt sign it and elected to continue the previous agreement that DID contain the water in the scope.  I also dont think the membership voted to accept the initial agreement in 2011 as I couldnt find any talk of it in the old email yahoo group in that year’s election results thread.

    Alan Crouse
    General Member

    I found drafts of the 2010 vote in my old e-mail, but I can’t claim a full record from 13 years ago.  What happened to all the club’s records?  I’ve had a couple of different board members reach out over the years for documents that seem pretty important.

    Dan DeWeese
    General Member
    CSS Instructor


    It would have been in 2011.

    If the membership never voted to accept the original agreement, then it was never valid in the first place? Any subsequent extension would also be moot? Can CSS get a refund? Asking for a friend.

    Alan Crouse
    General Member


    Well a couple of things:

    1) It is far more likely that the vote in 2010/11 did occur. The loss of the club’s records would make it difficult to prove otherwise and the existing evidence says it did occur.

    2) In the unlikely hypothetical that the Board in 2010/11 acted without the proper authorization, the other party is still protected as the 2010/11 Board had both the actual and apparent authority to conduct the business of the club.

    IANAL and this is only my opinion and not legal advice.


    Jai Pal Khalsa
    General Member

    Alan, Dan, all members,

    according to Rob McKenzie, membership never acted or voted to approve the ranch payment or agreement “but should have”. “This should be corrected” by a vote of css membership.
    CSS Bylaws are clear for expenditures of the non-profit, tax exempt corporation “Crestline Soaring Society Inc.”  Let’s not jeopardize the CSS inc status with the IRS, Franchise Tax Board, or California Secretary of State and do the right thing here.

    Another matter related to bylaws and proper notice for meetings- 1 days notice for a CSS Board meeting is not in compliance with our bylaws,  no matter how much the Communications Director apologizes.  Please renotice the membership with 10 days or advance notice as required so the validity of Board meetings and outcomes is of record and enforceable.

    thank you

    Corporate Compliance does matter.  Best regards.
    jai Pal S Khalsa, CSS Member


    CSS club records.

    Towards the end of my three year term as CSS club president, any club records we still had, were moved and stored in the green 20′ container that was under the old shade structure.

    That container is near the candy cane structure, just north of the kitchen/BBQ area in the LZ.

    You may find what you’re looking for there.

    Fly Safe!

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