January 30, 2021 at 9:18 PM #11168Jerome DaoustGeneral MemberCSS Instructor
According to this study (CNN: Cursing may be a sign of intelligence) I know some super-smart people. Unfortunately, some people will ramp up their language (insults, threats) until something pushes back. This Forum should be a place that makes people feel comfortable to participate in a productive way.
Now is a good time to establish guidelines for playing in this sandbox, and corresponding disciplinary actions. Probably no need for a karma system as implemented on the PG Forum, instead just go with the classic warning(s) and removal of offending post(s) for a certain number of times prior to posting privilege suspension.
And this is normal. I’m on a bunch of other forums (car, motorcycle, paragliding) and they all have behavior policies and discipline (postings removed, locked threads, users banned). When a new forum starts small, one can hope there will be no need for moderation, but then reality sets in.
Happy discussions, JeromeJanuary 31, 2021 at 7:03 AM #11169
Completely agree. Just like threats and violence wouldn’t be tolerated in the LZ, so should it go here as well. When every post turns out to be an insult, threat, or conspiracy theory about the club, that’s a drain on the group and discourages others from legitimate participation.
I’ll work up a few simple guidelines for the forum for us all to review and discuss and post them here.January 31, 2021 at 9:41 AM #11170Alan CoffieldGeneral Member
Considering Jerome’s linked study let me apologize in advance for what may be a less than intelligent response, since I won’t be using any expletives. I have a lot of respect for both sides/persons that prompted this thread, but regardless of who may be correct or has valid points, I will take the side of having “Forum Decorum”. This forum is open for literally the world to see. I dont want my daughter, or a 12 year old in India or Timbuktu reading this B.S. (opps a flash of brilliance there?), on our club website. I also don’t want potential visiting pilots from around the world or prospective local newcomers reading “heated language” from our clubs own website, that may discourage people from coming out to fly here. I like having the forums open to non-members, but consider it poor form for a non-member to “piss all over our club, it’s elected officers, and the club itself on a club forum that they don’t belong to. If I invite someone, who has an issue with me, to join my family BBQ, I certainly don’t expect them to make a scene in front of my family, at my home with what ever grievances they have, regardless of how valid those grievances are. We had the same issue a few years back with a certain “BK” from San Diego that “high jacked” our club forum to wage war on the national organization and at least one of our club officers. Unfortunately the forum needs to be moderated. Despite not cursing in this response, I confess I do occasionally express signs of intelligence at other times (driving in Cali and not reaching that last needed thermal.January 31, 2021 at 2:28 PM #11173
Since when does an unscheduled touch down in the bushes (especially when there was ample time and opportunity to make a perfectly good LZ) count as a landing? Does hitting the ground under reserve count too? Does “landing” a plane in the ocean count? Incidents are incidents – shit that happened that should not have happened during the normal course of flight. Are you super offended by me calling it a crash? That’s fine – suggest another noun to use and I’ll change it.
I’ve attempted to report all incidents here that I’m made aware of for purposes of pilot and club education – if you’re that offended by seeing incident reports, don’t come on the forum. If you’re that offended by seeing folks post information about COVID, don’t come on the forum.
Maybe the web just isn’t for you cause you have gotten SUPER heated about some topics on here and I think most folks just don’t give a shit about your opinion on those things. Perhaps we all want to get back to bragging about our flights or complaining about the north winds. I sure do.January 31, 2021 at 2:40 PM #11174Alan CrouseGeneral Member
Don’t feed the trolls…
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffilm%2F2020%2Fapr%2F06%2Ftrolls-world-tour-review-eyeball-frazzling-sequel-offers-same-again&psig=AOvVaw2k2HBD4sfAL99HiW3q89xs&ust=1612230360134000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCLjM2aHIx-4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJJanuary 31, 2021 at 2:58 PM #11175
Proposed forum guidelines – weigh in with edits, as you see fit:
In order to maintain a safe and open forum for all pilots to participate in, the following guidelines must be followed by all forum members:
- Absolutely no threats of any kind – physical or otherwise.
- Absolutely no hate speech.
- No trolling, insults, or belittling your fellow participants.
Participants in violation of the above may have the offending post removed and receive a written warning, or be suspended/banned from forum participation altogether, depending on the frequency or severity of the infraction.
That doesn’t seem like a lot to digest or that it’s heavy-handed to me, but anyone can feel free to make suggestions. As was said before – this is simple stuff that would get you banned anywhere else, so I don’t see how we’re the exception. I’m not looking to review and moderate every single post, so if we all agree to the above, anyone can feel free to either mention it in the forum or email firstname.lastname@example.org to report it. If there are major objections to this path and y’all want someone else to run the site, also speak up – it belongs to the club and I’m not going to stand in anyone’s way.January 31, 2021 at 4:44 PM #11176Jerome DaoustGeneral MemberCSS Instructor
Thank you for working on this David.
Let’s add “No insults or belittling“. Just talking about the obvious cases (no need to establish a list of specific words), which have the purpose of attacking someone’s character.
Seems like it was already being done, but may as well formalize in these guidelines… In the incident/accident reports, no name(s) of pilot, student, school or instructor. Probably also good from a legal standpoint.
Also, the moderation task could be delegated to someone willing to “take the heat” away from the CSS website administrator.
Some forums facilitate reporting, just by clicking a “report as inappropriate” icon next to a posting. Maybe there is an internal option available here.January 31, 2021 at 4:53 PM #11177
Updated (in the original comment).
Might be board/safety director perogative, but the incident report item might be better addressed separately? Not sure how everyone stands on incident reports, but my hope with how they have been dealt with over the past year (post them in the forum, no names, etc) is that more pilots will report incidents and that as we become more dialed into those as a collective, that that awareness can help us all prevent future incidents. Not looking to embarrass anyone, but taking an honest look at why these things happen can benefit all of us (maybe keep all of our egos in check a bit).February 1, 2021 at 8:06 AM #11178
Update: as a result of member request from several of you, and a board member vote, the frequent flier offender has been banned on this forum, and their posts removed. Hopefully the first and last time I’ll have to do that. I hope we can get back to harmless casual swearing (in moderation!) and humble brags about how cold it was at 8k.
Happy foruming.February 1, 2021 at 10:33 AM #11179
I know I am late to the game here, but the forum should be an extension of the LZ/club in general.
I can show great intelligence when I am working on the car or in the attic doing HVAC work, and still frequently my wife shows even greater intelligence. However, one day some time back in the LZ when she was waiting for me to land she told me that a group of pilots were having a very loud discussion about how F-ing rad the day was and how F-ing cool the conditions are and did you see my F-ing zoom coming in to land, etc, while there were multiple visitors with their kids in the LZ. She was so embarrassed for the visitors she went to the car and waited.
I tell everyone I fly with (737 flying) about hanggliding and many of them do go to the CSS website to look around, being pilots after all. If a visitor who is potentially interested in learning to HG/PG goes to the website and sees foul language and general discord it is quite possible we have lost a new participant, especially if said newbie has a wife and kids and plans to bring his wife and kids with him so they can enjoy the activity as well.
While I have no problem with intelligent people and even showing my intelligence, the forum and the LZ should be welcoming to non-members so that we work to bring in as many folks as possible to HG/PG.February 3, 2021 at 8:31 AM #11211
It was proposed that we add to the guidelines above a 3 strikes rule:
- First offense is a warning (and depending on the severity, may result in the post being removed)
- Second offense results in a 30 day forum ban
- Third strike – permanent ban
What does everyone think of that?February 3, 2021 at 8:57 AM #11212Dan DeWeeseGeneral MemberCSS Instructor
According to this study (CNN: Cursing may be a sign of intelligence)
Or a sign you learned to write and speak during your stint in the navy.
reminds me of a lyric:
but if I really say it, the radio wont play it, unless I lay it between the lines.February 3, 2021 at 9:12 AM #11213Dan DeWeeseGeneral MemberCSS Instructor
3 strike sounds fair.
Restore mitch in a month? Maybe he can consult his thesaurus and find less offensive synonyms for his top 100 derogatory terms. I know, it wont be as fun to read, but maybe the gist of it will get through.February 3, 2021 at 8:51 PM #11222Kim FloydGeneral Member
I completely agree with John Benario’s comments about the foul language in the LZ. It gets pretty tiresome. I also will not bring family members to the LZ. I can and do swear with the best of you all but I do try to be aware of who the unintended audience might be. I think that you all and I can mange our mouths well enough to let our LZ be family friendly.February 4, 2021 at 11:56 AM #11223Thomas EvansGeneral Member
I kind of feel like someone finally asked the question Joseph Welch asked of Senator Joseph McCarthy.
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