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    I completely agree with John Benario’s comments about the foul language in the LZ. It gets pretty tiresome. I also will not bring family members to the LZ. I can and do swear with the best of you all but I do try to be aware of who the unintended audience might be. I think that you all and I can mange our mouths well enough to let our LZ be family friendly.

    I think we need to ask ourselves what type of people take up HG or PG as a hobby and hang out in the LZ. They’re the kind willing to push their boundaries to the limits, the kind that get super stoked after a flight, the kind that enjoy a cold beer after a day of flying, and sometimes the kind that will scream at you at the top of their lungs, because you didn’t land where they wanted you to land. It’s an emotionally-charged place. If we tried to make the LZ a quiet and proper place, we’d have to kick a third of our membership to the curb. Even the quiet ones have had their moments.

    It’s probably fair to say that most of us do our best to watch our language if we see young kids around (which doesn’t happen very often at the LZ), but since most of the time we’re surrounded by adults, we might let a word slip here and there, because that’s part of our ‘normal’ in this environment. Maybe I’m wrong, but if I were to guess, other LZs with our size of membership probably experience the same occasional emotional turmoil and drama.

    I don’t like censorship. If I don’t like the way someone handles a conversation, I don’t engage them, because I can already guess how it might go for me. All I can do is urge people to think before they speak or yell and try to figure out how to get the message across without placing the other person in impenetrable defense mode.

    Bille Floyd
    General Member

    I’m not sure, that banning Mitch, or anyone, permanently, is

    a good thing ; everybody has Bad moments , (it’s human nature) !!

    Also :

    Mitch is a Really Good source of information ; he’s just

    a bit colorful with his speech, at times , (as Most of us are) .

    I’m for banning a guy, (or anyone) for no more than a month at a time ; eventually

    anyone would catch on, and possibly adjust their behavior to comply

    to the status quo  ?



    David Webb
    General Member

    I still advocate the 3 strikes rule, and think it’s a good compromise. There is definitely a difference between “colorful language” and repeatedly dragging down the rest of the forum with insults and threats. There has to be a limit and if a warning followed by a 30 day suspension aren’t reaching that individual, then it’s likely that they have no intention of changing their ways. This forum has got to be welcoming and usable by as many in the community as possible.

    Bille Floyd
    General Member

    OK — i get where your coming from ; how about a different

    type compromise then :

    A 4-strike rule, with another one month ban Added, to  each consecutive

    offence ; first time it’s a month ban, second time it’s two months, third- three, and

    then it’s a permanent ban ?

    I get in bad-moods , at times ; just trying to cover myself, because i’m a Slow learner .  :(


    David Webb
    General Member

    Sorry – I just don’t see what dragging it out accomplishes? I want everyone to be included and participate, and I take the censorship thing very seriously, but 3 strikes for posting in a forum is more than enough. This isn’t a case of someone blurting something out and then regrettting saying the moment after. There is ample opportunity between getting mentally fired up, typing out a reply, and clicking “Submit” to exercise a little self control. I think the fact that this is the first instance since the new website went live that anyone has even considered banning a person from the forum is testament to just how open it is. I’ve only heard of one other instance on the old site where this was necessary and I’ve yet to see any posts from any other participants (no matter how much I might disagree with them) that made me think “ban this person.”


    I support this ban, on someone who took his insults, profanity’s, etc., way to far on this website. Besides, it was based on his opinion, and not real life events. He has belittled anyone that had an intelligent response that made sense, in response to the science.

    We are not in kindy garden any more, the school yard bully is dead and gone.

    I suggest, turn on a TV once in awhile, and watch what is going on around us, in the world.

    Besides, I could care less of his opinion of Covid-19 pandemic. He’s not even close to having any medical opinion that matters to us.

    I’ll leave that decision up to me, based on my research and science. I’ll do what’s right for me and my family, not what some ass&8(#@0 thinks!

    Stay Safe!



    Alan Crouse
    General Member

    I’ve wondered why we allow any non-members to post in the forums, other than the “Marketplace” and “Rides” areas?  This is a club forum, paid for by club member dues.  There is probably value to CSS members from external posts on gear and rides, but the other forum areas?  Why?



    Alan, I contemplated the exact same thing.  I thought about making the recommendation to only allow members in good standing access to the website.

    Then I reconsidered.

    I believe that there is a wealth of knowledge here that should be available to anyone.  I also believe that allowing the general public to register and be a part of the discussions is inviting to others and a good thing.   Sharing our weather data and site information also improves the pilot and their experience.

    For those reasons my position would be to keep the forum open and monitor the posts versus a closed forum.


    I do not think Alan was suggesting to limit reading access by the public to any part of this website or discussion forum, just suggesting limiting areas within the discussion forum for non-members to create new messages.

    Bille Floyd
    General Member

    “I’ve wondered why we allow any non-members to post in the forums, other than the “Marketplace” and “Rides” areas?  This is a club forum, paid for by club member dues.  There is probably value to CSS members from external posts on gear and rides, but the other forum areas?  Why?”


    Haven’t bin a member for a few years ; but i never had a problem with supporting your club by paying the club day-use fees, every time i ever flew there since . If that is the way you feel ; then i will bail out, with no regret.

    Lake Elsinore , and Horse canyon in SD ; both are just a bit further drive down the road.

    Bille Floyd

    David Webb
    General Member

    Just my opinion, but I don’t see anything wrong with letting anyone in the flying community post here. As long as we can all behave ourselves, I think there’s value in letting folks who may not fly here regularly (and might not be regular members) join in on discussions. To my knowledge, we’ve really only had an issue with a couple of people in the entire history of the site’s forum (both the old one and the current one) – that’s actually surprisingly good.

    Alan Crouse
    General Member

    I guess Billie’s just answered the “why we allow non-members to post” question…  A non-member, but regular visitor who contributes to the community through his posts….

    Point made!


    Many thanks for the thoughtful and respectful discussion on this difficult issue. It seems only common sense our forum is for free flight issues and should be open to a wide audience in order to share the collective experience of pilots for the benefit of others. Discussions outside of free flight topics are more appropriately addressed in other forums.

    I don’t understand why things often regressed to personal attacks or why the language could be so foul. It just doesn’t make sense if you’re goal is to persuade.

    I was a minor victim of a Mitch rant and it seemed so silly. He has no knowledge of my background or experience, did not know the facts of the incident I posted on the forum, yet concluded I was emotionally incompetent. It made me wonder about Mitch’s emotional health.

    I don’t know Mitch, but I looked him up and found amazing videos of his flights. He is clearly a gifted pilot with experience and insights we could all benefit from. I agree with a three strikes rule, and hope it is very rarely enforced. I also hope we find a compassionate way forward with respect and forgiveness. Our sport is always at risk of regulation from government or insurance companies or even public perception. We do not need division. We need to “hang” together.

    Bille Floyd
    General Member

    Alan Crouse General Member

    Point made!

    Actually i believe you missed the point ; i have options, and also have the ability to adapt , fast and easy. Alan I have no interest in fighting with you ; I also enjoy flying enough that it would be difficult for anyone to chase me away, because I have the cognitive resources and willingness, to adhere to social protocol.


    Alan Crouse
    General Member


    Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I was agreeing that we have some non-member, regular contributors who add value to the forum.  You were an excellent example.

    Guess I owe you a beer :-)

    – Alan

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